Two Interviews. Two Americas
Watch Them and Judge for Yourself
Two of the most significant interviews in American history were released this past weekend. One involved a passionate and experienced professional, lamenting the decline of a news organization to which he devoted most of his adult life. The other was a rambling shell of a man, himself declining, incapable of lamenting anything but bad press coverage.
After telling former CBS News correspondent Scott Pelley that President Donald Trump called him a “stiff,” Lulu Garcia-Navarro of The New York Times noted he also called him part of a gang of “stupid, crooked people that don’t care about your country.” “Stupid?” said Pelley. “I can take that. Stiff? Yeah, probably. Don’t care about the country? I’ve never worn the uniform. But I’ve been in combat for this country, in Afghanistan and Iraq, Kuwait. I’ve been shot at, spent nights in foxholes filling up with water in the desert. I’m not aware that the president of the United States has ever done any of those things for his country. Please correct me if I’m wrong. You become a journalist because you love the First Amendment. You become a journalist because you love the country. And while all the other descriptions that the president used about me might be applicable, not that one. [Tears up] There is no democracy without journalism. It can’t be done. That is why I am a journalist.”
Scott Pelley became a journalist because he loves the First Amendment. Donald Trump became president because he loves Donald Trump.
Last Saturday in Wisconsin, Trump was interviewed by Kristen Welker of NBC News.
The first half of the interview addressed the Iran war, consisting of rambling, semi-coherent bombast and internal contradictions. Trump wandered into rhetorical cul-de-sacs about Venezuela and the stock market. Then Welker asked him about election fraud, including the recent California primary, which he called a “rigged election” because the vote count took so long. When Welker noted, “That’s how they count the votes in California,” Trump replied, “Do you know why they’re doing that? Because they’re cheating on the election.” Welker challenged him to produce evidence and Trump, who never looked comfortable during the interview, abandoned any pretense of self-control.
“They’re crooked,” he bellowed, “just like you’re crooked, your press is crooked. And Meet the Press is crooked.” When Welker said, “To be fair, I’m not crooked. But let’s continue,” Trump replied, “You’re either crooked or you’re stupid.” When Welker continued to press him for evidence of voter fraud, he exclaimed, “Your elections are crooked and you’re crooked, and Meet the Press is crooked.” Then Trump added, “You’re a one-sided crooked network. Sorry. Let’s call it quits because I’ve had enough. Thank you, darling. Have a good time.”
Then off he went, slouching toward Air Force One.
The earlier links to the interviews in this piece are to transcripts, but you can’t appreciate the difference between them without watching the videos. You can view the Pelley interview here, and the Trump interview here. The difference is striking – and disturbing.
Both men were emotional, but in contrasting ways.
Pelley teared up during his interview. “That’s a family at ‘60 Minutes,’” Pelley told Garcia-Navarro. “My colleagues and I have worked together 10, 20, 30 years. We travel together. We dine together. We go into literal combat together. My former boss and former producer Bill Owens saved my life in a firefight in Iraq. So, these bonds are pretty tight, and when somebody wipes out, murders, a large number of your family members, people are desperate for some explanation, and as you and I sit here today, there still has been none.”
CBS News Editor-in-Chief Bari Weiss and Sixty Minutes Executive Producer Nick Bilton were recently hired “apparently to curry a moment of favor with the Trump administration,” wrote Pelley, who added: “The waste is heartbreaking.” Pelley was one of many legacy staffers dismissed by the new leadership.
It’s also heartbreaking when America loses people in war. Trump, for whom callousness is a trademark, had this to say about service people killed in the ongoing Iran conflict:
“We’ve lost 13 people here and that’s a lot,” he told Welker. “Thirteen people, too many. But, if you look at Vietnam, where hundreds of thousands of people (sic) were killed, if you look at any one of the last seven or eight wars where many, many people were killed, we lost 13. And again, 13 is too many. I don’t want to lose any. But 13 is less than anybody’s ever even envisioned. I think we’re doing a great job.”
Like Pelley, Trump displayed emotion, but not because he sent American troops to die in service of his ego. Trump was angry because Welker asked challenging questions. Trump has a history of abusing female reporters.
Watch the interviews carefully. If you are raising a son, which man is the better role model? I suspect the vast majority would choose a mature professional over an unstable narcissist.
But some would choose Trump. Perhaps it’s because he promises to persecute people they hate. “I am your warrior,” Trump told the Conservative Political Action Conference in 2023. “I am your justice. And for those who have been wronged and betrayed: I am your retribution.”
In 2024, thanks to a political climate roiled by a pandemic, inflation, and a president who overstayed his welcome, sufficient Americans joined the haters to return Trump to the White House. Many of them now regret their vote.
As for the others, ask yourself this question: can a man who can’t abide tough questioning from Kristen Welker stand up to Vladmir Putin?
We all know the answer.